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#1 Game Warden

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:02 AM

Sad South Africa: Cry, the beloved country reports www.economist.com

 

Some simple changes could help spur change and integrity. One of the parliament’s worst features is its party-list method of choosing members, who are thus entirely in thrall to ANC bosses rather than to the voters: a constituency-based system would make them more accountable.


To read the full article click here.

 

Edited: Matt - Should you wish to discuss South African issues, namely politics, please add your post to this topic, and if referencing an online source, please adhere to these guidelines

 

I would also appreciate that anybody contributing to this topic think about whether their content could be considered libelous before posting: should I or any of the moderators deem a post to contain commentary which could be considered thus, it will be deleted.

 

thanks, Matt


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#2 wildernessman

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:06 AM

Quoted from the article link  : "Mr Zuma arrived with a mixed reputation. He had had a string of close shaves with the law for both grand corruption and squalid sexual behaviour; in his favour were his charm, homespun intelligence and canny ability to mediate between people and the many factions that make up the ANC."

 

Roughly translated it means that his close shaves with the law are a result of his having access to and influence of the legal system which has prevented many attempts to prosecute him .



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#3 Bugs

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

I know many South Africans are big one gloom and doom, but I keep hearing the voices of many Zimbabweans saying;- "Its going to happen to you, its already happening, and it will be worse when it happens to SA"

 

I simply cannot believe that its possible for us to go that route. However there are a number of troubling signs. 

 

The government was threatening the mining industry to revoke their mining permits, if they retrench miners. The government stepping in when a well known bank ran an advertisement that pointed out a few issues that show the lack of performance of the government up. And with the run up to the next elections, they are trying to destabilize the Western Cape which is run by the opposition. Zuma is totally bullet proof.

 

Its a sad time for SA, and we are not very popular at the moment. we are a dodgy investment. 

 

Why do I moan? how is this going to affect me? ...well it wont affect me, but I hate to see the poor get poorer and yet its their own vote that makes them their own worst enemy. 


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#4 Jochen

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

...but I keep hearing the voices of many Zimbabweans saying;- "Its going to happen to you, its already happening, and it will be worse when it happens to SA"

 

So they see some of the same signs they saw in their own country.

What I don't get is; why are they not doing nothing anything about their own country?

 

After all; what I read here is that they finally admit that they were fooled. Then why not turn things around?

If the whole of the middle east can do it, so can they. I mean it's not as if Uncle Bob is sitting on a huge pile of money (it's worth less than toilet paper), or as if he has a lot of military power.


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#5 Atravelynn

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

Why do I moan?

I'm sure seeing the country you love in harms way is heart wrenching. 

 

How wide spread is the sentiment, "Its going to happen to you, its already happening, and it will be worse when it happens to SA"?


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#6 A&M

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

It was just a matter of time when our country was going to face the challanges the rest of the ex British colonies did.

The most stable country in Africa is Botswana and the govenment seem to be doing a sterling job,pity others cannot learn from them.

 

Only this time it seems to be happening at an alarming rate,it has only taken 16 odd years for this to unfold.It took Mugabe a bit longer.

Reason is Zuma has a bit more help on his side.

 

Not sure I agree with Dikdik ,that he will not be affected by this ,we all are, one way or another. 

 

This ANC self enrichment saga is only going to get worse and the ANC will eventually hang themselves,but at who's expense.This country is lawless and here where I live it is getting out of hand daily,people just do what they please on the roads and dont not adhere to road traffic signs.This is only the tip of the ice berg,rapes,farm murders,corruption is rife all over.Nobody in their right mind could carry on living like this indefinatley.All government dept are in a mess.Our education has been rated as some of the worst in the world as compared to the old days.

 

So for me as a SA born and bred , and grew up in the good times, it breaks my heart to see how these people wrecking what we had built up .  



#7 Jochen

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

André, Bugs,

 

I was under the impression that people are starting to understand that ANC is not doing the right thing and is not helping them at all.

Also, I read that ANC is caving in, bit by bit, and more political parties are being formed, either new or split off from ANC. One particular person comes to mind; Mamphela Ramphele. See here:

 

http://news.iafrica.com/sa/841471.html

 

Too little too late?



#8 Bugs

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:59 AM

J, I have long been fascinated by group mentality. As individuals we humans are a pretty decent bunch, but when we form gangs or groups - we appear to loose track of reality. 

 

Just about every person who you speak to who is the worst off will tell you how disappointed they are at the government. Many will even say that they were better off in apartheid - hard to believe. But when the time comes to put the cross on that ballot paper - they will vote the same thieving incompetent clowns back in.

 

I would love to see Mamphela Ramphele do something, but you can be sure that they will shut her down one way or another. 


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#9 Sangeeta

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:06 AM

That herd mentality is the same in every country, Bugs. Here in the US, Congress had a 9% approval rate just before the November elections, and I believe more than 90% of the incumbents running for office were re-elected to their seats! How is that even possible? The mind boggles.
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#10 Jochen

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

Well Sangeeta, it's the same over here, in that "artificial" country I live in (no need to go into the details though).

But I thought that in US or EU, voters don't change that quick because - let's face it - we're rich.

 

So I had hoped voters that really have little to lose would react differently.

Guess not...



#11 Sangeeta

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

I'm not sure if that's the reason, Jochen. Here, since elections are such expensive and mostly privately-financed propositions, the candidate that raises the most money usually wins, regardless of his/her positions, performance etc. :(

I find that bribery and corruption simply become more sophisticated as the country gets richer. IMHO, lobbyists are simply legal bribers and the pols are legal bribees :) In places where this sort of legal bribery has not yet been codified into law, they're still exchanging votes for bagfuls of cash, but essentially the same thing, no?

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#12 A&M

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:48 AM

J, I have long been fascinated by group mentality. As individuals we humans are a pretty decent bunch, but when we form gangs or groups - we appear to loose track of reality. 

 

Just about every person who you speak to who is the worst off will tell you how disappointed they are at the government. Many will even say that they were better off in apartheid - hard to believe. But when the time comes to put the cross on that ballot paper - they will vote the same thieving incompetent clowns back in. 

Dikdik ,I dont want to get into an debate about who was better off or not during the old era,but speaking for myself .

 

My family and I  have been subjected  to a very violent attack in our home a few years ago and I have been hijacked and beaten and have also lost a few very close friends due to murder.So ,I have every reason to not like this new era and I never will.There are 1000's of  SA who have suffered at the hands of others here,and not only whites ,but all races in SA ,just look at the brutal rapes committed this last week and another 4 over the week end.

 

Maybe there are many of SA out there who have not been sujected to this violence and can live a normal life,and not know any better except for what they see on the news,but I think once the feel the pain ,their views will change .   

I would love to see Mamphela Ramphele do something, but you can be sure that they will shut her down one way or another. 

Yes would be a good idea,lets see how this plays out then.


Edited by A&M, 11 February 2013 - 05:50 AM.

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#13 Bugs

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:17 AM

A&M - you are not alone. I have also stared down the barrel of a gun, and also have a long list of friends or associates who have been mugged, assaulted and murdered. Thankfully my experiences have been mild in comparison to many others. But that doesn't change the fact that we are all watching our backs, and have a subliminal stress hanging over us all the time. 

 

I think that the important point is that this crime is across the country and doesn't isn't limited to any social group. But the underlying reason is the same reason why Eskom, Transnet, and any government or quasi-government administration is in a mess;- Plain and simple - bad leadership, corruption, nepotism and incompetence etc.... 

 

It doesn't have to be like this!!


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#14 Bugs

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:24 AM

That herd mentality is the same in every country, 

Its like watching the first wildebeest getting ready for a crossing. He knows the danger, and will case the place out carefully, but once one jumps - they will follow regardless. 

 

I think that the situation in SA is that the web of corruption is spread so wide, that so many people stand to loose too much if they break from that web. Self preservation/self enrichment is more important that the interests of the population of the country. 


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#15 Bugs

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:28 AM

I write these negative things, and feel a little bad after. I am the last person to want to bad mouth this country..... And on a public forum - maybe its a bit out of place. 

 

It still remains the number one place and home for me. 


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#16 A&M

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:41 AM

You are correct ,it does not have to be like this,but sadly it is,and what worries me is ,that I cannot see a quick fix or solution to this wide spread problem any time soon.

 

So now some of us have to live in hope,that oneday somebody from somewhere steps up to the plate and fixes all this.Not in my life time.

 

Yes  ,this is not the place to complain about our domestic issues,but GW did " half open" a can of worms here. :rolleyes:



#17 Jochen

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:54 AM

See, now that last post of yours, Bugs... that's really from the heart isn't it?

 

A friend of mine, a ranger, got loads of questions from tourists at one point. All questions on how things are going in SA, what his personal experiences were, etc... and out came the same story as most of people in SA; robberies, rape, murder, ...but he defended his country too. And when they asked him why, he said "because it is MY country, and I love it. It will always be my country, and I will always love it and never give up on it. I will also fight for it, as it is worth fighting for."

 

Every South African around the table, trackers and kitchen personnel, most of them black, nodded in agreement. It was like a communal "amen" from a church group.

 

It's clear (at least to me) that, if most South Africans got that pride and determination, all the country needs is one charismatic leader to channel that energy, and set things straight.


Edited by Jochen, 11 February 2013 - 06:54 AM.


#18 Bugs

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:16 AM

It's clear (at least to me) that, if most South Africans got that pride and determination, all the country needs is one charismatic leader to channel that energy, and set things straight.

Its most South Africans are just like any other person - we just want to live in peace and be safe. 

 

Its that tiny % of @*&$$# who mess the whole thing up. 

 

I have said this so many times. - I cant help thinking that it suits the first world countries that Africa has poor leadership. 

 

Anyway 'nuff said - I will refrain from any further comments. 

 

Its a beautiful day outside. 


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#19 Sangeeta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

So tell us more about your new endeavors, Bugs. Would love to know more about the projects you're hoping to get involved with.

I've quit watching political TV shows here. They just rile me up and discombobulate me for the rest of the day.

Zindagi na milegi dobara... Chalo Africa
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#20 wildernessman

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:42 AM

I know very few people amongst a quite vast list of friends & business associates with whom I regularly interact that will say that considering the rife corruption , mismanagement , crime etc , they are positive about S A 's future . In fact most of them display a negative attitude.

It is possibly the most regularly discussed topic amongst the average informed South African , and the average outsider may assume the press is capitalizing on sensationalism , but it is impossible to ignore the signs.

The Mail & Guardian does not survive on sensationalism , have a look at this link to their investigative journalism section.

http://www.amabhungane.co.za/

The main publication.

http://mg.co.za/


Edited by wildernessman, 12 February 2013 - 08:43 AM.


I have walked more than 1000km in the "big 5" wilderness .





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