Jump to content



Message to Guests.

Welcome to Safaritalk where we have been talking Safaris and wildlife conservation since 2006. As a guest you're welcome to read through certain areas of the forum, but to access all the facilities and to contribute your experience, ask questions and get involved, you'll need to be a member - so register here: it's quick, free and easy and I look forward to having you as a Safaritalker soon. Matt.

Photo

Farming rhinos for their horns.


  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

#81 dikdik

dikdik

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 3,009 posts
  • Local time: 10:57 PM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Africa
  • Category 1:Resident in Africa/Former resident
  • Category 2:---

Posted 05 October 2011 - 09:32 AM

[

dikdik,

I am planning to come down again beginning of next year. It would be great to meet with you and to visit some game farms. Seriously, this is always a great thing to do. If you like I take you to the Kruger afterwards and we will spend some quality time with lions.


Look me up before you get here, I will make every effort to meet you somewhere, and I will bring Captain Morgan with to keep the peace.

There's none so blind as those who will not see.


#82 PeterGermany

PeterGermany

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • Local time: 08:57 PM

Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:07 AM

I thought it would be worth while having a look at what happened over the last couple of month.

We have been talking about the Rhino poaching crisis quite intensively and my take it was common sense at some point, that something meaningful has to happen to stop the accelerating threat towards the Rhino. Around the globe, but esp. in SA the host country of the largest rhino population in Africa.

Some of the findings seemed to me being the following:

* supply drives further demand, the more rhino horn flooding the market the more people out of specific society groups within China, Vietnam and Korea desire the voodoo stuff
* all existing rhino horn will hardly meet existing and growing demand
* legal loopholes have supported illegal rhino horn trade, esp. trophy hunting of Rhinos in SA
* rhino poaching is a high profile crime driven by professionell syndicates with the involvement of governmental authorities and wildlife business stakeholders (farmers, vets, wardens and professionell hunters)in SA; one of the main reasons that tackling the issue(or getting back control) is definitely a challenge.
* the SA legal system is constantly failing to take meaningful action and to impose appropriate penalties to the kingpins of the crime (jail, not bail), suspected masterminds are still doing their business as usual

Here are some numbers:

* 122 rhinos poached in 2009
* 333 rhinos poached in 2010
* 448 rhinos poached in 2011

Fake trophy hunts are not included in the numbers.

Within the first 2 weeks of January 2012 at least 24 Rhinos have been found dead due to poaching. At least 11 in the KNP. So the crime is still accelerating. And what has been done by the SA authorities to get back control? Not much it seems.

http://www.iol.co.za...rmits-1.1155907

In October last year Water and Environmental Affairs Minister Edna Molewa announced a package of initiatives to evaluate (!) different options, incl. a moratorium for legal rhino hunting, de-horning rhinos and the legalization of controlled (!) rhino horn trade. All of which have been debated quite extensively by a variety of people and organisations. So the sense of urgency resulted in the feeling that there was more need for debates, while the rhinos died on the killing fields of SA's National Parks and Game Reserves and are still slaughtered brutally on a daily basis.

Forced by animal rights organisations and conservationists Edna Molewa spoke up again on the Rhino crisis. Well, it seems that Mrs. Molewa does not see a crisis at all!

http://forafricanews...inst-rhino.html

"Due to the invasive nature of and expenses associated with dehorning, the intervention should only be considered under conditions of relatively severe poaching threat," Molewa said.
A continuing study commissioned by government will also look into whether legalising trade in rhino horn could help to bring down poaching.


That leaves me almost speechless. "... intervention should only be considered under conditions of relatively servere poaching threat". This lady does not sound too concerned so far.

While the alarming figures of rhino killing in the country had raised concerns among animal rights groups and activists, SANPARKS said it was not yet time to press panic buttons.

According to the organisation's CEO David Mabuza, there are around 22 000 rhinos in South Africa, accounting for 93 percent of the world's rhino population. The rhino population is said to be growing at a rate of six percent a year.

"So while all of us should be worried, it should be noted that the killings have not yet threated the rhino population in general. But if we continue at this rate (of killing), we will start seeing a decline by 2015," Mabuza said.


Given the mental models of the leadership (of course completely ignoring the ordeal of the individual rhinos and taking that mindless population viewpoint)in SA it is not a suprise that the rhino poaching is still accelarating. Not sure anymore who stated this in what context, but somebody wrote last year here on ST, that what is happening in SA is basically "a large scale sustainable offtake". This statement is making perfectly sense if we take the economics into account and the high profile people being obviously involved in the organised crime (while I am not saying that Molewa or Mabuza are involved themselves). It is about business. Rhino horn delivers max. profits short term through poaching and may result in the legalization of rhino horn trade, probably the desired end game of the "sustainable offtake"?

Interestingly those being confronted with the organised crime on the ground on a daily basis (and this includes the majority of the Wardens, Rangers and Game Ranchers) have a different view on what is going on. Those people are not only deeply concerned, many of them are outraged. And there are of course people who have a more realistic stand of what is going on compared to their leaders.

http://www.ewn.co.za...y.aspx?Id=80675

SANParks' Head of Conservation Services Hector Magome said the problem had gone far beyond the capabilities of ordinary rangers and policemen.

“Poachers have become sophisticated. The level of poaching has increased - even police cannot deal with it. We are under siege and I think we need to rise up,” he added.


So the question remains to be: Quo Vadis SA?

#83 Game Warden

Game Warden

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • 13,511 posts
  • Local time: 09:57 PM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sat by the PC
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:---

Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:37 AM

Status Quo this year in terms of Govt action IMHO: "take off" will top 500 this year. And SA tax payers now have to cough up for reinstatement of a fence between Kruger and the Limpopo Transfrontier Park which was removed a few years ago, as I read it. Dik dik, can you confirm? As I've read others comments, I wonder who's brother or cousin or family member will win the contract to construct it??? And of course, the fence will solve everything, especially the poaching in private reserves nowhere near the Moz border...

"Return to old watering holes for more than water; friends and dreams are there to meet you." - African proverb.

 

How to create your gallery album and upload images.

 

How to post images in the text.

Want to tag another member in a post? Use @ before their display name, eg @game warden


#84 PeterGermany

PeterGermany

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • Local time: 08:57 PM

Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

Here comes some very interesting number crunching ... and the winner is: legalizing rhino horn trade.

http://www.businessd....aspx?id=162979

Overall some interesting facts are being provided in this article, definitely worth while reading. I cannot resist but quote one part particularly:

Only about 15 rhinos are shot in true trophy hunts in South Africa every year. About 200 are shot each year, mainly by Vietnamese, in pseudo-trophy-hunts where the hunter is solely interested in the horn for on-selling into the Asian market for horn. The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (Cites), to which South Africa is a party, allows trophy hunting. However, it is clear to everybody including the Cites management authority in South Africa, that most of those horns are for the trade and not to hang on a wall.

The Department of Environmental Affairs, embarrassed by the loophole, has offered to close down these Vietnamese hunts but the game farmers are opposed to the closure because it is a source of revenue of about R48m a year and they argue, convincingly, that they need the money to justify keeping and growing rhino numbers and paying for their security. These farmers own 5000 rhinos, or 23% of the national herd.

There is also a valid argument that if these hunts were not allowed, the level of poaching would simply increase by 200 a year, which would then transfer income from farmers to criminals and not reduce the overall number of rhino deaths.


It also uncovers the great weakness in the argumentation of the author, he is constantly jumping to conclusions in favor of legalizing rhino horn trade (what he is basically advocating for) which are more or less obviously not valid. How can he conclude that by closing down legal poaching the illegal poaching is going to increase by the same amount? Nonsense from my point of view.

The author seems to constantly assume in his argumentation that there is a constant demand for rhino horn which is going to be a given thing moving forward. Nonsense from my point of view. He is also claiming that the ban of rhino horn trade has caused the problem rather than solving it. De facto he is publishing a graph proving right the opposite.

His phantasies about a central selling organisation, across all African countries, is pure Science Fiction from my point of view.

Beside this the author also falling into the trap, that the current "offtake" is "sustainable" and can be controlled moving forward. Hence he is admitting that "some poaching" will continue even trade of rhino is going to be legalized.

But there are many valid points made in this article. The war against the poaching mafia is a loss proposition if the ways of tackling it are not going to be changed. More anti poaching units and more army involvement will most likely not stop the onslaughter. Because of a simple reason, the poachers who are getting shot and jailed are victims themselves in this game. The winners are the masterminds behind the scene. As long as they are not hammered and jailed the game will continue I believe. Legalizing rhino horn trade will work out to their benefit. Closing existing loopholes will make it a bit more difficult to run the show. Closing existing loopholes will increase the pressure on the game farmers to get rid of the rotten apples within their own ranks, and will put a price tag at it. It is a business, nothing else. Demand cannot be controlled I fear, supply can. Waiting for an information campaign to be implemented (in countries with severe information censorhip) and executed is like waiting for the cows to come home. Esp. those demanding the rhino horn do most likely have access to international news ... they are the so called elite, and give a bloody shit. Supply drives demand, an old rule which is certainly applying to rhino horn as well.

#85 Game Warden

Game Warden

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • 13,511 posts
  • Local time: 09:57 PM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sat by the PC
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:---

Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

"KZN to push for rhino-horn trade" reports www.zululandobserver.co.za.

KZN Wildlife authorities are to push for the legitimisation of trade in rhino horn, Dr Bandile Mkhize said last week. The CEO of Ezemvelo KZN Wildlife was speaking at a function at Thula Thula Private Game Reserve. He said Ezemvelo was preparing a submission for Cites, due in September. ‘The solution (to the rhino-poaching problem) is to legalise the trade in rhino horn,’ he said. ‘We have to lobby...

To read the full article click here.

"Return to old watering holes for more than water; friends and dreams are there to meet you." - African proverb.

 

How to create your gallery album and upload images.

 

How to post images in the text.

Want to tag another member in a post? Use @ before their display name, eg @game warden


#86 Lion Aid

Lion Aid

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Local time: 09:57 PM
  • Category 1:NGO
  • Category 2:---

Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:27 PM

It seems to me that this rhino horn issue is now proceeding very far into the nonsensical. The poaching issue has been going on for three years now with an escalating trend. The South African government seems remarkably lacking in terms of any progress towards resolution, including a strange reluctance to prosecute those who have been charged with complicity in poaching. The government has allowed official exports of 153 horns to Vietnam (2009 & 2010). The government has allowed export of 173 live rhinos (are they still alive?) to China 2007-2011. The government has allowed 217 trophy rhino exports to Vietnam (2007-2011). Is this not legalized trade? Has it stopped the poaching?

Of course not. If you play with fire you get burned.

Legalizing trade in horns beyond what is already happening will make people a lot of money, but will not stop poaching. People will still want to maximize their profits from a commodity whether they own it or not. So we still have car thieves, bank robbers, pickpockets, gun runners.

And please let's have a bit of realism entering this issue. The private rhino owners want big profits. They will get burned by organized poachers. There are not enough rhinos to flood the market with horns and everyone knows that. A big and temporary bubble will just allow canny dealers to stockpile for the inevitable crash in supply in the near future. Do you really think that the private rhino owners are interested in conservation of the species?
www.lionaid.org

#87 Brian's Art for Animals

Brian's Art for Animals

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 402 posts
  • Local time: 03:57 PM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, IL. USA
  • Category 1:Conservationist/Naturalist
  • Category 2:Wildlife Photographer/Artist

Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:53 PM

Short answer NO.
Can't they get those interested in it turned on to some kind of plant that might actually work and have the effect the people are looking for. Plants do it all, that way we can grow something rather than have to kill an amazing being for its horn.
Brian's Art for Animals
"Life is a Safari!"
http://www.youtube.com/user/briczar22

#88 ZaminOz

ZaminOz

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 2,345 posts
  • Local time: 04:57 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth, West Australia
  • Category 1:Born in Africa
  • Category 2:Conservationist/Naturalist

Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:44 AM

No
*******
Warning, if any safari camps wish to employ me as a guide, I expect a salary far, far, more commensurate than my actual experience!

#89 Game Warden

Game Warden

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • 13,511 posts
  • Local time: 09:57 PM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sat by the PC
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:---

Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

What about farming rhinos for their rhinos? Let me explain my thinking on this as it's all I seem to be doing presently. With the poaching levels in the wild escalating, what if the Govt purchased from the private owners the calves at an age when they could be released into the wild: at a set market value, not through auction. So it would be in the private owners interest to maintain 1 bull and as many cows as permitted with their land size. They would indeed protect their asset as every calf born would be a new asset with time.

However, how would the Govt finance this? And who would set the market value for the rhino? And who would be liable for the expense of upbringing to the age at which they could be sold: photographic tourism? Rhino walks, like the lion walking, although of course then this would habituate the calf to humans.

"Return to old watering holes for more than water; friends and dreams are there to meet you." - African proverb.

 

How to create your gallery album and upload images.

 

How to post images in the text.

Want to tag another member in a post? Use @ before their display name, eg @game warden






© 2006 - 2014 www.safaritalk.net - Talking Safaris and African Wildlife Conservation since 2006. Passionate about Africa.
Welcome guest to Safaritalk.
Please Register or Login to use the full facilities.