GAME: name that bird!

[inyathi]

@offshorebirder

 

@Soukous

 

@mvecht

 

No, no, and er no

 

Guess again folks there are still more to choose from.

Edited December 15, 2015 by inyathi

[offshorebirder]

OK @@inyathi - the bill looks too long for Tiny Sunbird, so next I will go with Eastern Double-collared Sunbird?

[mvecht]

@@inyathi

 

then Eastern double collared sunbird?

[inyathi]

@@offshorebirder You’re probably not going to like my answer because I could say you’re right yes it is, but that is open to debate so I’m going to say no it’s not and go with what I have recorded on my bird list, because that's what I believed it was when I posted it.

[mvecht]

Is it Northern double collared sunbird?

if so you are not making it easy as we can not see the whole bird.

[offshorebirder]

@@offshorebirder You’re probably not going to like my answer because I could say you’re right yes it is, but that is open to debate so I’m going to say no it’s not and go with what I have recorded on my bird list, because that's what I believed it was when I posted it.

 

That's quite alright @@inyathi old bean, since I was dreading having to go find something interesting or challenging from my depleted archives. Talk to me in five weeks though. ;-)

[inyathi]

@@mvecht What I meant with my last post is that it is either an eastern double-collared or it is what I have on my bird list, which answer is correct depends on whether or not you are a lumper or a splitter when I spotted the bird I went with what the book I was using states which is that they are genetically quite different and on the views of some more knowledgeable birders than myself and therefore on this one I am in the latter camp. I recall from another thread that you have quite strong views on this issue @@offshorebirder, when I chose to post the photo I hadn't actually realised that the taxonomy was still disputed so I decided that the answer should be the name that I have on my list, this problem was not taken in to account in the original rules so I'm not quite sure what the rule should be if this situation arises again.

 

Have a look at this BirdLife International information on the Eastern Double-collared sunbird and read the taxanomic note and come up with another name or if you want I will just provide my answer and whichever one of you wants to go next can then do so.

Edited December 15, 2015 by inyathi

[offshorebirder]

I am happy to pass and let @@mvecht take the next turn.

[mvecht]

@@inyathi

I am probably more of a lumper in this context

Just to be 100% sure. This is an Olive -bellied sunbird (Nectarinia fuelliborni)?

Out of curiosity. Are the two species separated by location only or are there any physical differences? There is not a lot of information on Google.

[inyathi]

@@mvecht Yes that’s the one Nectarinia fuelleborni, on my list I have it down as Fülleborn's sunbird but in Birds of Africa south of the Sahara it’s called the Forest double-collared sunbird and on the BirdLife website the olive-bellied double-collared sunbird. To further confuse matters in western Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda & Burundi and Central and West Africa there is also an olive-bellied sunbird N. chloropygia a good illustration as to why scientific names are important.

 

I wanted to pick one that would be hard enough that no one would get it right away but I didn’t mean it to be so complicated, I assumed when I posted the photo that my other books were all sufficiently out of date that they just hadn’t caught up with this split. I was forgetting that I have the ebook version of Stevenson & Fanshawe’s birds of East Africa which should be up to date; it still records this sunbird as a race of the eastern double-collared. It says that these birds have violet uppertail coverts so there is a slight visual difference though you can’t see that in my photo which was taken at Mufindi in southern Tanzania.

 

When photos are viewed on Flickr under the photo it displays the date taken, a short while ago I found out that I could change this date to hide when the photo was really taken or so I thought. I realised when I first did this that it doesn’t change the exif data so anyone familiar with Flickr who thinks hang on a minute he didn't take that photo today or yesterday can if they want to just click show exif data to find the real date. When I uploaded this last photo I worked out that all I actually need to do is set the photo to private that way when I post it on ST everyone can see it but if you click on it to go to Flickr you can’t access it, much simpler.

 

Over to you mvecht.

[mvecht]

@@inyathi

Thank you for clarifying.

In lieu of the past challenge I will continue along the same line. However this time I will be a splitter rather than a jumper.

So you have to come up with the correct subspecies of this rather common bird.

 

[offshorebirder]

Sorry @@mvecht - but I think you went too far in trying to require subspecies ID for your entry. My understanding is that this game is about bird *species* - not subspecies.

 

Speaking generally (not necessarily this specific example): throwing it open to photo ID challenges of subspecies is just too much in my opinion.

 

This is for multiple reasons - especially the fact that subspecies are often very contentious / unsettled (even among experts and reference works). And some subspecies are impossible to ID morphometrically (especially based on Internet photos). Plus other problems.

 

The game is called "name that bird". Naming the correct species seems to satisfy that requirement.

Edited December 16, 2015 by offshorebirder

[mvecht]

@@offshorebirder

In general I agree with you.

However in this case the subspecies division was done more than 150 years ago and the plumage of this subspecies is significantly different from the nominate species.

I will leave the challenge on for another 24 hours. Hopefully someone will have a go at it. Otherwise I will be happy to come with another challenge.

Hopefully my upcoming trip to Tanzania will give me some more photos that I can use for future challenges.

Edited December 16, 2015 by mvecht

[inyathi]

@@mvecht I’m not looking to have another turn but I’m going to guess that this is Fringilla coelebs maderensis the Madeiran chaffinch if I’m right then I think this was quite easy purely because for anyone from Europe at least the bird is obviously a chaffinch so it’s easy to look up the subspecies and the races are quite distinct.

 

However for other birds I’m inclined to agree with @@offshorebirder that asking for subspecies will make it too difficult or complicated aside from the reasons already given books often don’t show or even list all subspecies. Having said that I don’t imagine that between us all we’ve got enough photos of distinct subspecies to make it work, even if we did want to go down this road. I don’t generally ever record bird subspecies, if I know that there are distinct races I might look up the subspecies out of curiosity as I did for the helmeted guineafowl I saw in Chad and I did give the subspecies name in my last report but normally I have no idea as to the subspecies of the birds I’ve seen, therefore I couldn’t really ask for specific subspecies even if I wanted to.

Edited December 16, 2015 by inyathi

[mvecht]

@@inyathi

as you say it is definitely a chaffinch.

Your choice of the maderensis subspecies is very close but not correct. This subspecies is even duller in colour than the maderensis.

The correct answer is Azores Chaffinch (Fringilla coelebs Moreletti). Several of the resident birds on the Azores have very dull colours compared to there relatives on the European continent.

However as I think we all agree this is not a game of subspecies I will say that your guess was more than good enough to hand over the challenge to you.

[inyathi]

@@mvecht Thanks I did think that I might well have the wrong island but I've not been to any of these Atlantic Islands so I wasn't too sure, ok here's the next one which might not be as hard as my last one or at least less complicated.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by inyathi

[offshorebirder]

@@inyathi - Fulvous Whistling-Ducks perhaps?

[inyathi]

@@offshorebirder No

[inyathi]

I thought it best to wait until after New Year before asking if anyone else wants to have a go at this one, I didn’t want to give anything away with my last answer but now to keep things going I will say you were pretty close @@offshorebirder

 

Does anyone want to have another guess at these birds?

[kittykat23uk]

Lesser whistling ducks?

[inyathi]

@@kittykat23uk Yes lesser whistling ducks at Chiang Saen Lake in Thailand over to you.

[kittykat23uk]

Try this one:

PC101726 by Jo Dale, on Flickr

[Soukous]

what I love about your entries @@kittykat23uk is that the photos are so clear and yet i still haven't got a clue what they are

[kittykat23uk]

Oh dear! Maybe if you can work out where it was taken it might help narrow it down.

[janzin]

It looks like Acacia thorn so I'm thinking Rattling Cisticola, but that seems too easy!