Jump to content




See all Safaritalk Special Offers

Message to Guests.

Welcome to Safaritalk where we have been talking Safaris and wildlife conservation since 2006. As a guest you're welcome to read through certain areas of the forum, but to access all the facilities and to contribute your experience, ask questions and get involved, you'll need to be a member - so register here: it's quick, free and easy and I look forward to having you as a Safaritalker soon. Matt.


Photo

A Well Regulated Ivory Trade


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 optig

optig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Local time: 07:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Category 1:Resident in Africa/Former resident
  • Category 2:---

Posted 02 December 2016 - 11:51 AM

it's just foul how the author of this article argues that poaching needs to be brought under control,and then one can 

have a well regulated ivory trade.The point its that poaching has to be brought under control,and the traffic then ended. 

You can't compare ivory to alcohol,drugs and tobacco 

are all things people which cause addiction. Is anybody addicted to ivory? Does anyone need ivory? Let's consider that 

at least 95% of the ivory for sale in ivory is worthless plastic which is something that I learned long before. As long as any legal

trade is allowed ivory from elephants killed illegally will be classified as legal. That's why a ban needs to be complete

and total. All seized ivory should simply be destroyed,and there can be no exceptions.

http://www.worldpoli...s-won't-go-away


Edited by optig, 02 December 2016 - 12:01 PM.

  • Towlersonsafari and lmonmm like this

#2 COSMIC RHINO

COSMIC RHINO

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 6,793 posts
  • Local time: 01:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney australia
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:Environmentalist

Posted 06 December 2016 - 11:58 PM

a regulated  ivory trade  is a well established program for elephant murder

 

this latest proposal comes from a right wing thinktank   keen on the market but not the planet

 

the best  approach  to ivory  involves a legal ban on the trade and regular destruction of the stockpiles to avoid developing the idea that a legal trade will  ever be viable


Edited by COSMIC RHINO, 07 December 2016 - 12:00 AM.

  • lmonmm likes this

Wild Africa is in my blood. All life is sacred and interconnected. for the animals are fellow nations caught in the splendor and trevail of the earth.


#3 COSMIC RHINO

COSMIC RHINO

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 6,793 posts
  • Local time: 01:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney australia
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:Environmentalist

Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:21 AM

looking  at everything done at the past and the present , ivory regulations are a sham , they don't work

 

those who come up with such schemes rely on highly theoretical models which have nothing to do with  reality

 

how does corruption fit in  and the impossibility of checking cargo  ?

 

how about the Japanese trader who was taped as wanting to met someone in public with a brown paper bag of cash to buy a tusk 

 

elephants are at risk of extinction 

 

ivory is death  and must not be legal to trade

 

there are other dubious trades like narcotics, making them legal has equal merit


  • optig likes this

Wild Africa is in my blood. All life is sacred and interconnected. for the animals are fellow nations caught in the splendor and trevail of the earth.


#4 optig

optig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Local time: 07:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Category 1:Resident in Africa/Former resident
  • Category 2:---

Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:24 AM

What I sincerely believe is that the best thing that can happen is to make wearing ivory increasingly socially unacceptable. I'm not being overly optimistic,by letting people know that elephants are killed for their stupid vanity they'll be less,and less willing to buy it. Part of the simple reason why so many less people smoke cigarettes now is because people do mind if you smoke. 

 

However,that said I just wish this ridiculous debate would simply end,and that people would simply accept the fact that the ivory trade has to be ended once and for all. China,and Hong Kong have to close all the loopholes and stop selling it. The public should know that at the barest minimum 95% of the "ivory" for sale is in fact worthless plastic. I have no sympathy for ivory carvers because they can carve out of so many other materials. 


  • GBE likes this

#5 COSMIC RHINO

COSMIC RHINO

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 6,793 posts
  • Local time: 01:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney australia
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:Environmentalist

Posted 08 December 2016 - 07:47 AM

suggesting  having a legal  ivory trade is suggesting that crime and corruption should be rewarded

 

in an legal trade , the illegal murdered elephant stock will get mixed up in it 

 

  • the only likely source countries are Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe  and  sth africa
  • of these the only one which is honest is Botswana, they realise  that  the trade will destroy elephants so they did not apply at CITES  COP17 to trade
  • the other 3 are chronically  severely corrupt 
  • the Namibian elephant population  is questionable since a whole lot of them could be on the move from botswana
  • a whole lot of the illegal trade from Zimbabwe  comes from the Hwange national park stockpile, and is removed from the list  by people working on the inside
  • in the phillipines   new tusks are  varnished  to make them look decades old pre dating the trade ban
  • traders in Egypt tell customers to paint tusks  then get the paint of with nail polish remover
  • registration cards are abused  in china, hong kong  and Japan  

 

violent organized criminals are not just  going to retire from a profitable trade , they will cheat, cheat and cheat 

 

the legal trade is an established failure  and will never work except to profit criminals   


Edited by COSMIC RHINO, 08 December 2016 - 07:51 AM.

  • optig likes this

Wild Africa is in my blood. All life is sacred and interconnected. for the animals are fellow nations caught in the splendor and trevail of the earth.


#6 COSMIC RHINO

COSMIC RHINO

    Order of the Pith

  • Members
  • 6,793 posts
  • Local time: 01:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney australia
  • Category 1:Tourist (regular visitor)
  • Category 2:Environmentalist

Posted 09 December 2016 - 03:38 AM

Namibia refused to allow the great elephant census  into their reserves  as a lower count would  harm CITES trade bids


  • optig likes this

Wild Africa is in my blood. All life is sacred and interconnected. for the animals are fellow nations caught in the splendor and trevail of the earth.


#7 optig

optig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Local time: 07:55 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Category 1:Resident in Africa/Former resident
  • Category 2:---

Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:08 PM

I have to say that in my latest experience that the hunters feel that now that Trump has been elected President he'll allow the traffic of ivory to the United States. I can see their argument for hunting in some areas where there is no other alternative,but they believe that the ban on ivory should also be ended. They think that ivory coming from elephants which died from natural causes,elephants which had microchips installed in their tusks, trophies and ivory from culls. They also feel that countries which have stockpiled ivory be allowed to sell it. This is just sheer lunacy. They even want the ban on rhino horn ended. I'm glad that I've seen so many elephants,rhinos,and lions already,and furthermore that I'll see more. 

 

As you know it's hopeless arguing with these people. I only do so because we all have to play devil's advocate at times,and of course you only really understand something yourself when you have to write on it. Thank you for informing me about the fact that Namibia didn't even bother taking a census of it's elephants,according to the hunters the population of desert elephants is thriving due to their conservation efforts. Well then why didn't you bother taking a census in the first place?







© 2006 - 2016 www.safaritalk.net - Talking Safaris and African Wildlife Conservation since 2006. Passionate about Africa.

Welcome guest to Safaritalk.
Please Register or Login to use the full facilities.