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"5 Musketeers" Desert Lions down to 1 :(

43 posts in this topic

Wilderness Safaris posted about it on FB this morning...I'd seen something earlier this week that indicated Tullamore had been killed but I couldn't verify it. I'm with @Antee 100%. This is beyond tragic. Not only were all of them beautiful vibrant souls, this was a desperately needed gene pool that has been wiped out. There are days when I so mourn for this planet that it's hard to get up. :(

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Oh no, this is just awful! I saw an update was made to this thread and was hoping it was something happy but this is the worst news.  :(

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Very very  tragic - but, what about Lions that we don't know that are killed in the face of man-wildlife conflict?

 

I bet there's plenty unreported in Namibia and elsewhere on a more consistent basis than we realise?

 

I do feel for the research team that dedicated years at a stretch monitoring them .......... Like others, I loved the "Vanishing Kings" and one of the best documentaries in recent times.

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There are lots of other lions kills in HWC situations- quite sadly. Namibia seems to be really struggling with this. I personally am saddened at the loss of the genes. These 5 came from a line of strong and hardy lions who have been able to successfully live in that harsh environment. This does not bode well for lion populations in Namibia- or at least not in that area.

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Posted (edited)

What is even worse is that at least one tour guide from Wilderness safaris (+ two other companys) now celebrate the loss of the last musketeers... 

What a shame from this company! No one should ever use them again with such ignorant guides unless they kick him out. 

It´s a shame from such a big company to have tour guides with this ignorant behavior. I have contacted them and asked them if they support this statement and if not... what they going to do about it.

No wonder why Africa never develop...

Namnlös.jpg

Edited by Antee
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@Antee He is indeed listing himself as a guide for WS. This is disturbing. I didn't see this post on his page, but it may have been removed or only allowed for "friends".

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Posted (edited)

we shouldn't jump to conclusions that this Frank Rock represents the face of Wilderness Safaris. SInce he listed 3 companies he works with, I would think this Frank Rock is probably a freelance guide. so before letting condemnations fly,  we should at least find out if he is indeed a full-time employee, and if he is, what the listed company's stance on the situation is. 

I also had a closer look at his comments, and the sad situation truly reflects the human-wildlife conflict there. obviously I'm devastated that the 5 musketeers are gone, as well as dozens of nameless lions who are killed because of these conflicts. It's easy to condemn the farmers but I don't live there,and I don't eke out a living from breeding domesticated herds there at the edge of the park. I don't face dangers from wildlife there on a daily basis. so before I curse these farmers, I should try to understand their positions as well. 

Edited by Kitsafari
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I can only say that it's a shame that the Namibian government is so unable to see the long term potential of it's wildlife. It has a policy where all "problem" wildlife can be shot and it doesn't belong to the hunting quotas. I won't make more comments as to how it is supposedly a great conservation "model" for their African countries. I have made my opinion known here as well as on other places. 

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30 minutes ago, optig said:

I can only say that it's a shame that the Namibian government is so unable to see the long term potential of it's wildlife. It has a policy where all "problem" wildlife can be shot and it doesn't belong to the hunting quotas. I won't make more comments as to how it is supposedly a great conservation "model" for their African countries. I have made my opinion known here as well as on other places. 

 

~ @optig

 

Have you ever visited Namibia as a guest on safari?

 

If so, did you have a favorable impression during your stay?

 

Tom K.

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@Tom Kellie I visited Namibia on only my second safari 7 years ago and have to say that I loved it. Unfortunately, I only spent 8 days in the country which was far too little. I should  have spent at least two weeks there; I loved the scenery,wildlife, and the mixture of German, Afrikaaner, Herero and of course other tribe's cultures.  

 

I must say that this was before all of Namibia's current problems with poaching, and before it was apparently bought up by various hunting organizations which shall remain nameless. 

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23 minutes ago, optig said:

@Tom Kellie I visited Namibia on only my second safari 7 years ago and have to say that I loved it. Unfortunately, I only spent 8 days in the country which was far too little. I should  have spent at least two weeks there; I loved the scenery,wildlife, and the mixture of German, Afrikaaner, Herero and of course other tribe's cultures.  

 

I must say that this was before all of Namibia's current problems with poaching, and before it was apparently bought up by various hunting organizations which shall remain nameless. 

 

~ @optig

 

Thanks so much for filling in the background text.

 

Now I understand your experience with Namibia.

 

Tom K.

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Posted (edited)

The tour guide Frank Rock is already kicked out from Wilderness Safari. He hasn´t been working there for 5 years and will not work there again. 
Which is very good. Wilderness safari have a different view of this situation. 

It doesn´t matter if it´s a freelance guide or not. You have a responsibility who is working in your name, no matter what. 
But like I said, he´s already kicked out. 

There is an new excellent video about the problem and some very insight news about the death of Tullamore and the lack of conservation work in the area
https://www.facebook.com/about.lions/

People should really ask them self to visit this country anymore. Many other African countrys have started to get things going regarding conservation work and then get income from it. Look at Chad, Mozambique, CAR, Malawi, Rwanda (Not mentioned big destinations like Kenya, Tanzania, Botswana, South Africa Etc. who have done it long time). The ball is rolling. Slow but rolling. 
But Namibia goes in a completely different way. Which is very weird regarding the quite big tourism industry. Alot of people in Namibia are depending on it.

I personally don´t want to support this government before some change is done here. 

Why can´t safari companys do more in this area? Why can´t they do an agreement with Tomakas village and compensate them with money? Safari in this part of Namibia is expensive and it should be money to this as well.
Built a community camp in Tomakas which benefit the whole village? 
Like in Purros, which has a great community camp. Some conservancies acts quite well while others don´t. 
More parts need to be involved in this otherwise it´s not going to end. 

Filip Stander can´t do everything. And with no support from the tourism government it is time for a new sollution in this area. 

There is tons of organisations in Kenya in an already protected area, many of them totally useless like Cheetah forever and so on... why not move commitment to the Namibian desert instead? Where it would be useful.

 

Edited by Antee
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@Antee Interesting news as the guide still lists himself as working for Wilderness. I am surprised you are touting SA with conservation...the country that just legalized domestic trade in rhino horn.  The country that still has a rampant canned hunting industry I believe they also wanted to allow legal trade in elephant tusks. I would never ever lump SA in with Botswana...not even close. But, that is my opinion only.

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Posted (edited)

XPL 59 + 3 cubs has just being reported as possibly dead to relevant parties. No further details.
Source: Inki Mandts facebookpage

I am following this interesting story and it´s been on television and news here in Europe. Photo companys from Germany (which is the biggest nationality in the Namibian tourism) is already talking about to start avoiding this country and move on. Which is really good. 

@lmonmm the tour guide has also deleted his post. It was obviously not a good idea to post such a comment as a tour guide in the area... what an idiot. 

 

Edited by Antee

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Well... things are moving after the last weeks miserable news in Namibia. More or less an ongoing war between Lions and Farmers. 

A new human-wildlife conflict law was signed Friday by president. Let´s see if it´s going to change things... 

http://www.namibian.com.na/55515/read/New-law-to-tackle-human-wildlife-conflict

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On 2017-6-11 at 4:59 PM, Antee said:

The tour guide Frank Rock is already kicked out from Wilderness Safari. He hasn´t been working there for 5 years and will not work there again. 
Which is very good. Wilderness safari have a different view of this situation. 

It doesn´t matter if it´s a freelance guide or not. You have a responsibility who is working in your name, no matter what. 
But like I said, he´s already kicked out. 

Filip Stander can´t do everything. And with no support from the tourism government it is time for a new sollution in this area. 
 

 

Apparently even someone who depends directly on tourism views his cows as more important than his income. I hope conservation organisations working in the area take this as a lesson. How come that a tourist guide is happy with the loss of a lion? I don't think we should judge him, but rather try to understand as to why he's happy, where, in the view of most people here, he shouldn't be happy at all.

 

Flip Stander does great work, I don't think there is someone more dedicated to Namibia's lions (or even lions anywhere). However, the number of lions, the size of the area, the multitude of issues are far too much to be dealt with by just one man. He doesn't want to expand his project, and he doesn't need to. But other projects should be allowed to work in the area, focusing on HWC for example. I know there are people/projects trying to do this, but it seems hard to get the relevant permits, and it seems hard to get them to work together (give all projects access to real time location data to mitigate HWC before it happens).

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Posted (edited)

The Desert Lion Conservation Project - www.desertlion.info/ - Coordinated by Mr. Filip Stander is the only one authorized by the Government of Namibia to research, monitor and investigate the man / lion conflict in the area known as Kaokoland / Damaraland. This project does not have social media platforms, all information about the project is made available to the public on its website. Facebook that openly discusses issues in the area, advertises, and "responds to project information" is from third parties. I remember two occasions when the Desert Lion Project posted a note on its website explaining this, including warning that the information contained in this social media platform is distorting facts and provoking unnecessary conflicts.

 

The public domain information - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4590886/Last-famous-lion-brothers-killed-Namibia.html suggesting the death of Tullamore / lioness / cubs should be true, There are many sources for such (LODGES + TOSCO + PALWAG + WILDERNESS SAFARIS + PUROS CONSERVANCY + SESFONTAIN CONSERVANCY + IRDNC and MET) and everything indicates that it occurred in the month of April. It is now time for all those interested in the conservation of this region to press the Namibian Government, aiming at changes in the maintenance / planning of these three villages: Tomakas, Omiriu, Ondudupi, and a few others. It is necessary to establish a differentiated policy for them. In this region where the musketeers resided are common areas, without a formal conservation status, governmental domain. In 2014, the XPL 73 lions (Rosh - the father of the musketeers) and the unbelievable XPL 68 (Terrace) were shot in the vicinity of Tomakas. In time the surroundings of the Tomakas are notoriously an area hostile to lions, and despite the innumerable Efforts to appease the moods in these villages, no measure was able to stop this murderous attitude. We can not forget that we are talking about adapted desert lions, a unique organism in biological and physiological terms and its conservation value is immeasurable.

Edited by Matias Cox

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