I've been trolling through old threads, as you do, and came across this one How Much Manipulation

Not that I want to re-argue all the valid points listed in that thread, but because there are quite a few new members on this forum who may want to say what they do with their post production.

A speaker I heard recently said that the bottom line with his photography was that as soon as it left his hands to be put on display, whether that was in a book, as a finished artwork on a gallery wall or on a website, it became the property of the person viewing it. He wanted the viewer to respond emotionally to his image not just to see what may have been there in a photo-journalistic sense, but to see beyond that.

It made sense to me because I have always seen my landscapes and wildlife with a 6th sense, not just the colours and light of the physicality of the scene in front of me, but with an emotion which I have felt at the time and which I would like to recreate. For this I use every tool that I have, from the camera through photoshop down to the presentation on art paper, metallic paper, canvas … whatever seems appropriate at the time.

So I guess there are many types of photographer, and photographs mean many different things for us all but I liked
John Milbank's quote

I have included a few very manipulated images, again … because I can; which the purists here won't appreciate but I have so much fun messing around with them there isn't any other way for me now.

This first elephant was really just a cropping job, nothing else.



Then I tried a few other bits and pieces with one of my husband's images.



Now I'm into my stride, again one of my husband's.



What can I say, I like impalas.



Trying some different techniques here.



And finally,



So for me, I get many uses out of my photos. Every few months I can look through the originals and see something different I can do to them which gives me new skills, lots of fun and lets me pretend I'm on safari.

Forgetting, for the moment, the manipulation versus pure is best argument, anyone with some before and after photos they are willing (brave or stupid ) to share, I'd love to see them.

Your approach and your results are artistry. Your own eye may have seen the lighting the way it appears in the after shot, even though the camera recorded it as the before shot, due to the limitations of the equipment. Your eye may have been focusing on the elephant tusk, but you snapped the whole head, so it's logical the post production zooms back to the tusk that caught your eye and imagination.

The impala shot is an interesting effect. The impression for me is primarily an appreciation for the creativity of the photographer or the Photoshopper with appreciation of the scene and the animals as secondary.

Along the lines of your comments, I was just admiring my former photographic composition skills and my decision making on when and what to shoot, back when there was only film. I'm a bit in awe of my former self and the results. Not to get too boastful because it's all relative. I'm not selling any photos now, nor was I back then, but I managed to get what I consider some beauts with no assistance from technology.

At the very least, we can now just hold down the shoot button with no worries about financial repercussions when the bill for developed film comes due. That alone immensely improves the keeper shots.

Lynn, I thank you for taking the time to reply. I agree that digital photography and subsidiary techniques can make for a sloppier approach but now that I am trying for a different result I am sure that my initial image capture will tighten up. At least I hope so!

Should I get rid of the grass around this rhino's mouth? Not much manipulation in this one, just some vignetting and of course, turning it into a black and white.

I missed that original thread so thank you for kickstarting a related discussion.

For me, what I find acceptable in terms of processing applied to my own images and to those of others depends wholly on what I'm looking for at the time.

If I'm looking for as fair a representation of reality as possible, I prefer less processing.

If I'm looking for a art, for a more liberal interpretation of my own dreams and those of the photographer, I'm happy to accept far more processing. Often, as a viewer, I'm happy to enjoy wildlife photography that does veer towards art, though, as others have said, I do prefer to know when what I'm looking at has been manipulated beyond the normal basics.

Many who decry manipulation have very little understanding of how ALL photography is a manipulation of the truth. Yes, even slide film too! One's choice of film controls not only saturation of colour but colour balance too (some films are known for strong greens and blues, others for stronger skin tones), and even the way the tones are respresented at the extremes of exposure. And of course, when these are printed, the contrast of the paper itself, the filters through which the image is projected onto the paper, the exact mix of chemicals... all these have an impact too. I even had someone lecture me about how some of the traditional photographers would turn in their graves at modern manipulation. Tongue in cheek, I asked if they meant someone like Ansel Adams, to which they vociferously agreed... before I pointed out that he was known not only for the extreme processing he did in the dark room (where do digital-age photographers think the terms dodging and burning come from?) but also for physically adjusting (setting up) details in the scenes infront of him. If digital photographers don't want that branch in their image, they clone it out. AA just broke it straight off the tree before shooting, so I hear! And yet he was a great photographer and what he is known for is sharing "nature" with us.

Also worth keeping in mind is that what one needs to do to a digital file in order to present it at it's best depends a lot on the camera one uses. I met someone who proudly boasted they did none of the adjustments I do on saturation, contrast, and white balance. I had to point out to them that their model of camera actually applies all of those adjustments using it's onboard processor to the image as it saves it. I choose a camera that does nothing at all to the data it captures other than save it. I then apply those same adjustments, but individually for each image!

For the vast majority of my images, I adjust colour balance (shooting in RAW makes this easier to do at this stage than at point of capture), exposure (if need be, I try to get it right at the point of capture) and contrast. I do crop but not that often as, again, I do my best to get what I want at point of capture. It's the main reason I use telephoto lenses - prime lenses are often better in terms of absolute quality but the advantages of being able to zoom in and out to get just the composition I want outweigh that slight difference, for me. That's about it for the majority of my images but for some, I play with other effects, these are very much images that I think of as art rather than purely as a record.

I'll try and load some examples when I can.

Twaffle, in artistic terms I really like the 2 impala images: would look good as greetings cards, posters etc.

Kavey, thanks for your response which is well thought out. I look forward to some of your examples.

GW, I am going to re-work one of the impalas as I have a different idea now. I will repost in case anyone should wish to comment. Very subjective thing, this photography!

Now you have me curious about the updated impalas.

I'm sure the rhino would object to you taking food from its mouth. To know if the grass would be better gone, I'd have to see both.

Hurrah, I'm ready for the digital age! I made my first major Photoshop manipulation...


Before



After

Congratulations! I like the teddy bear which I would never have noticed if you hadn't worked on the image.

BTW, did you get the photographer's permission to manipulate his/her photo?

I just asked him while standing in front of my bathroom mirror.

Ah you must have that very rare U shaped telephoto lens, you can just see part of it at the bottom of your image

I always travel with a second body.

I wish that I could! I would choose a much younger version, something like Angelina Jolie!


Jan

When I had a Fiat 500 in my late teen years, I never saw Angelina Jolie-like ladies waving to me.

Did you look like Brad Pitt?

When I had a Fiat 500 in my late teen years, I never saw Angelina Jolie-like ladies waving to me.
quote]

Nyama, perhaps you were in the wrong country? I was in England, and my Fiat 500 was blue. And the year

was 1966!


Jan

I have no idea how Brad Pitt looked in his late teen years.

My Fiat was white, and had its wheel on the left side. And I got my license a few years later.

I guess that I certainly didn't look like Brad Pitt after an overnight stay in my Fiat 500. But somehow it worked...

Nyama, my steering wheel was on the right, and nice girls don't stay overnight in cars!


Jan

What have I done...?!

Some paranormal forces from Safaritalk (or was it Down Under?) must have remotely controlled my mouse and quivering hand..........



30 minutes ago I ordered my first digital camera.

Jan:
But they do in Volkswagen Campers... or at least well before I was married...

Nyama:
Okay Nyama confess. Was it this one?

Jan was talking about nice girls, Matt.


Yes, your guess goes in the right direction. Actually choosing the right colour was a tough decision...

I was going to relate some interesting experiences, but have thought better of it!


Congratulations Nyama, what did I chose for you?

We're all dieing to know! What was the camera? The Teddy Bear shot is wonderful. Do you take him/her with you on all your safaris?

He has been a member of the family for a very long time. He even has his own web domain and email address. And somehow he often smuggles himself into my luggage...


Here are some of his former appearances on Safaritalk:






















And sometimes he can be quite naughty...

It's a very small one.

Nyama, you should have some fun with that camera, if your bear lets you have a turn. I presume you bought it for it.

Compliments on the tidy rooms!!! Mine always look like a bomb has hit it.

You didn't tell me that you stayed at ...... ehmm, I better don't tell the name of that camp.

The manageress of a certain camp once showed me the rooms. And since all tents were occupied, she did that while all her clients were on the game drive.

Lesson: you never know who's visiting your room while you're out...

Oh dear, I will have to be more careful with my tidying up. Were you at that same camp as me?
Apart from my mess, pretty good hey!

I especially loved the Kutandala shots with the bear. The Elephant and the Teddy Bear could be a child's book.

Twaffle, perhaps the little teddy tidies up when Nyama is out. Maybe we all need to travel with such a bear.

My room usually looks very lived in too.

I'll be looking forward to the digital shots, Nyama, with or without Teddy.

That's part of the idea. Actually he plans to write a child's book about his adventures in Africa.

The rooms are carefully prepared for those shots. Some thoughts are spent about furniture placement, and plastic items are generally removed. Don't think that this is how it looks in reality. The bear is chaotic and never tidies up.

Btw, he's very proud that one of his brothers is featured at a prominent location on Wikipedia.

Ah so he's a steiff? let's see a close up of the popper in his paw, or wherever it is hidden... Has he a name?

I cannot believe the coincidence. Last night I was visiting with a friend who had an auction show on TV, where people bring in things to see how much they might be worth.

A Steiff bear like yours was one of the featured items. If I recall correctly, it was made in 1902 or 1903 and the internal framework was being experimented with so that a metal bar ran from head to bottom. The nose was also unique in that version and the ears sat lower than they were in later Steiff Teddies. Anyway, the particular bear was worth over $5000 US dollars.

I had two Stieffs as a kid. Foxy and Squirrel--a fox and a squirrel. They were my favorites.

The Steif Teddy Bear adds such a wholesome, whimsical German flair to your travels, Nyama.

Nyama, it just proves that you're never too old to own a Teddy. I think that the photos were taken the moment

that you stepped inside your tent. I have taken a little elephant with me, but he was always too shy to be seen.

However, in my bedroom I have a lovely meerkat!, and yes we are related, he turned up on my birthday at

Jack's last October, and now he watches over me and keeps me safe at night! Some people never really grow

up, do they?


Jan

I never regarded this as typical German.

I remember a saying from when I was young, "Never trust someone above 30". Looking back now I realise that there's some truth in it. The majority of people around me experienced something around 30 what I would call mental death. If adulthood means that you loose your curiosity and stop asking important questions, that you no longer question rules and try to break them, then I'm happy that I still have conserved some childish behaviour.

Steiff is a German producer of stuffed animals and Teddy Bears, which is the German connection.

Yes, I know. But I never regarded him as something produced by Steiff. He's around since I live, and I would call him some kind of totem.

Got it half an hour ago. Now.... where can I buy Japanese fingers?

Successfully loaded SanDisk Ultra II 4GB film and made my first digital picture ever on 23-Sep-2009 17:14 CEST.


Well, these news are less than 140 characters. Should I apply for Twitter membership now?

Let us know when the disk comes back from the lab all developed. I hope you will post that first image once you have time to scan it in!

Scanning.........

Voilà! Nyama's first ever digital photo:



Of course I had The Bear's fan community on Safaritalk in mind while doing this. He's just training for the upcoming Great Walk and looks a bit out of shape...

Thanks for the image.

~~Bear Groupie

Poor Bear, it looks like he's had a fairly serious operation on his tummy! And operated on by a pretty poor

surgeon! But never mind, he's obviously a tough old chap and doesn't let it stop his explorations of Africa!


Jan

Can't you just paint a picture … the gnarly old lion and the battered bear hand in hand exploring Africa!

Terrific image, Twaffle! No sign of my new Facebook friend-to-be.


Jan

Sorry, Jan. I haven't been back to Facebook, shows how much I value it. I will try to do it today.

That's pretty cute, really!

Twaffle, we're now officially friends! I just wish that I were as talented as you are when it comes to photos.

Nyama, you and your furry friends are a class act.

I'm just off to Bath for three days for rugby and my brother-in-law's birthday celebrations Back on Monday.


Jan