http://www.youtube.com/user/NgokoSafaris


Hi! Watch the You Tube videos of all the wild dog action from Kwara

Thanks to Fiona and Greame in the UK for these........


Regards,
Hari

PS: This is the UK version. Let's wait for the USA version and Portugese versions of these. USA version will be from a different vehicle - Portugese version is likely to be from a similar angle (same car)

http://www.ngoko.com/news.php

The newsletter version

Thanks Hari.. not much more I can say. Just back from Zambia my wild dog sighting (in a thunderstorm) was very tame in comparison. The green eyed monster is growing in me, pangolin Caracal Wild Dog behaviour overload.

Hi Hebog,

Hope you had a good trip - welcome back!!! Would like to hear about it after you settle down.

Regards,
Hari

Some amazing footage. In the clip with the male being killed was the high pitched sound mostly from the male under attack or from all the dogs?

Hi Lynn,

There was a hell of a lot of noise - I think from many dogs together.

But, I really found that clip more disturbing than the kudu

Absolutely brutal. No mercy there.

I've been extremely lucky with my wilddog viewing and probably seen more than 10 wilddog kills from go to woe.

But I've never seen anything like that ....as Hari said quite disturbing.

Hari,

What was your reaction at the time?

I have to admit that I don't plan to watch the videos. I have looked at the newsletter and photos and they were enough.

If I was on a game drive and witnessed the drama, I would consider myself fortunate and would be caught up in the moment … whether it was gruesome or not. But I find watching the videos of things like that much harder to deal with as you don't have adrenaline coursing through which helps deal with what is a fairly horrible death (for kudu and dog).

I think you were very lucky Hari to see such amazing action, I wish I had seen even a fraction of such activity on any one of my safaris!

I liked the comment on the newsletter about it being a first safari for some of the people involved … I wonder how they'll ever go on another safari and be amazed by what they see!!

Geoff,

Initially there was too little time to even react - as we were with the cheetah/cubs when we saw the kudu being chased by the single wild dog. First of all, we thought 'there they are' - as our initial thought were that we had lost them (having returned to camp to shower earlier). Yes, the Kudu being eaten alive was initially disturbing - but, it's easy to get lost behind the shutter of the camera.

(I guess it's not as brutal when the whole pack brings an animal down - it's almost a quick end - but, this was brutal)

Then, when we saw the larger pack - our initial thoughts were that they are the rest of the pack and that they are going to re-unite. I suppose it was not to be ........ that part was totally disturbing and something that was very hard to watch. Even more difficult to do - was the following day, when we saw the carcass of the dead dog just lying there. (To me this was the most difficult - as the reality finally sinks in). During, the whole episode there was very little reaction time for emotions of any kind.

One minute you are watching something, next minute something else. To be honest, all of us in the various cars - unitedly were rooting for the cheetah cubs in the first place (including the guides).

I found the Lion episode the next day very hard to watch .........

Cheers
Hari

Twaffle,

The newsletter reference was to a group of 4 youngsters (20 something folks) from the USA. Their first safari - they saw this episode. They saw 2 dog kills at Lagoon. 3 cheetahs over there. Plus, they stayed out one whole day to watch the 3 Kwara cheetahs hunt and kill impala. Yet - amazingly, they wanted to see Leopard on their last night - which they were not lucky enough to find.

Hari

I would have to echo Twaffle.

Watching these events at home was pretty brutal and difficult the first time.

Having been witness to a wild dog fight like Hari's, you do get caught up in the moment, rather than think about what you are watching.

I mentioned to Hari in a PM, it is easier when you hide behind your camera clicks.

Yes, and Russell - there was one other witnessed Lagoon Vs Lebala pack fight too besides the one you witnessed. If you recall, I mentioned to you that in October there was a said fight that I missed out as I was too far South.

As you mentioned the other day, probably something in the feed......

I also thought it was from many dogs. I found the male being killed more disturbing too. First, it is just a more shocking and unusual sight; second, the kudu was for food while the dog being killed was for ranking and dominance; third, antelope are considered to be prey but we put the predators in a different category.

All of that has to do with my preconceptions, not what really happens in nature. But because of those preconceptions, I found the dog being killed harder to watch and I did not finish that clip.

Good point! Plus, we almost worship dogs....... so, watching one get killed is disturbing.

sorry folks- fiona had to bring down the videos due to nasty comments she was receiving from people
- people are odd- they watch the same thing on tv and not complain!

It's a nature video - why would they complain? Gosh......

Anyways, if anyone should wish to view the wild dog videos please email her for access

fiona@ngoko.com

she says that the site can allow for 25 users at a time on private access.

Sorry, but, the general public are fussy.

EDIT: DISREGARD THIS MESSAGE AS THE VIDEOS ARE BACK UP ON YOU TUBE>

I just heard that people were very upset with the Youtube display and they got very nasty. How ignorant these people are is beyond me........ If only they realized how the cattle are treated (while they frequent their closest Burger King)!!!

I think it's more from ignorance, though....... they'll probably go back to watching clips from "American Idol" or something like that.

GAME WARDEN: Is there any way, the video can be displayed on this site? without having people need to write to Fiona everytime? I suppose, people visiting this site won't be fussy about a kill etc etc.,? Yet - I have no clue about technology, cyber space etc etc.,

Let me know if there is a possibility - or perhaps you can email Fiona at the above address?

Thanks
Hari

Wow..that whole dog episode sounds very interesting. Those people will find it hard to top that if they go on safari again!
Working with wild dogs (right now actually, as i am on lunch brake) i am not sure if i would want to see one kill another. As stated by someone else...the newsletter is enough for me.
But I can see why people post it as Disney does a good job in showing us the cute and fluffy nature, and people need to really understand the big picture on how it all fits in. Esp with predators.
Hopefully with more education will come more of an interest in conservation. I am glad the cheetah cubs got away. Reminds me of a story a guide told me where his people all wanted to see a kill. So they just happen to be at the right place at the right time where a hyena pack brought down a young zebra. Well.. after seeing how long the zebra stayed alive and how much blood was lost, he told me his people looked the other way and wanted to leave.

As for you tube., I spend obviously a lot of time on it. I have been getting porn spam a lot lately, and i do get rude comments of all sorts from time to time. But i would repost it and put a 18 or older disclaimer, as this footage is of the real world out there and real animal behavior. Something educational. For crying ut lud its you tube.. i have seen videos of all sorts including hunters blowing away (wild) domestic dogs in Australia.

Disappointing that it has been removed and disappointing that there were such comments. Maybe a disclaimer for the squeamish would suffice.

It is true, we never see the animal eaten alive on documentaries, only the death grip on the throat and the eating afterwards.

So which predator would you prefer to die at the hands of, I'm thinking maybe a leopard? Single hunter so has to kill before eating … you would think. Any ideas?

Twaffle,

The choice is down to Lion, Leopard or Hyena out of the African Predators?

I'd say, Tiger though....... probably faster way to go for me?

Thought I'd register and join in the discussion as I was the one who removed public access to the videos on You Tube. It is the first time I have used You Tube and I had been a bit concerned about putting the videos on in the first place, in particular as I couldn't find a way to put an age restriction on them. So it freaked me out a bit when the first comment I received by email was that I was sick for posting them! Having given it some thought and seen what else is on there I am happy to put them back to a public listing if someone can let me know how to add an age restriction (couldn't work that out last time). Also on the proviso that I can turn off the feature that emails me with each and every comment (think I have worked that one out). Any thoughts?

Tigers are hard to get over here. Kangaroos disembowel predators … not much fun, but they don't eat you alive.

In the African bush I still think leopard or a single cheetah (not a mum, don't want to be a play thing for the cubs ), if there are more than one predator, i.e. lion, wild dog, hyaenas, cheetah brothers, 1 can distract the front end whilst the other eats! Definitely not a python or a crocodile, though that would be quicker I think … you'd drown.

Grizzly bear would be no good, I saw that doco about the American who thought he was a spiritual brother of the bears and ended up being bear fodder. Sounded slow.

What a silly discussion … sorry for bringing it up!

Hi Fiona,

First of all welcome to Safari Talk.

So the Youtube is back up?

I think if you figure out a way to put the Parental warning and things ........ you should be okay. Ignore those emails, Fiona .......... end of the day, it's a nature program. That's how things happen sometimes in their own state - it's just that we caught it live on tape this time around.

Cheers,
Hari

Twaffle,

Wild dog or cheetah are unlikely to attack people. So, it's down to the Lion, Leopard or Hyena.

Hi Hari

Yep, I've taken the plunge and the videos are back up. I think only the You Tube staff can add age restrictions but I'm sure they will get around to that as it has already been flagged to them. Meantime I don't think anyone will be able to miss the health warnings I have added. I've also turned off the facility whereby any comments are automatically emailed to me, which felt a bit invasive!

Enjoy your Sunday!
Cheers
Fiona

Thanks, Fiona.

Ngoko,

Sorry for the problems you have had. I saw some of the videos--must have been before they were removed. It was tremendous wildlife footage. Yes, raw and savage and I chose to cut my viewing short. But I certainly was not offended.

Fiona, under "edit video" you can choose all sorts of things, as i think you have noticed. so you can put where no one can comment, or you can approve comments, or anyone can and then you can pick to receive no e mail alerts about it. If you want a lot of people to view it use a lot of key words (tags).. liketiger, lion, wild, dog, attack, vs, kill, prey predator..etc.. it will get more attention then.
As for the 18 and over.. you are correct as i think only the powers that be at You tube will do that once they get it flagged for being too graphic etc..

I guess i will watch it now.. (i get a little un nervy)
And as for cats killing or predators.. I would also have to go with a mean tiger. As something tells me a leopard would take a while longer if you put up a good fight, and the thought of a pack or pride ripping me apart isn't too cheery. Since my last 9 years have been spent working around predators, this is something i think of every day.. the whole "what if the lock doesn't work..what if it gets out..what if..what if...." cheerful thoughts
-Brian

Thanks Brian. Good luck with the video watching...

It is the problem with our sterilised society of today, we are far removed from the realities of life, our meat comes wrapped in plastic at the super market far removed from the beasts we love to see in the countryside.
So here now we have the truth in stark brutality of the life of these beautiful dogs & throw up our hands in horror.

Oh! for those fluffy cuddly Lions.....................%&^*&$%%!

I read the newsletter. That was enough for me, I won't be watching the video as I can imagine it will be too graphic for me. But it must have been a great safari experience.